How to Overcome Fear in Real Estate | Cristina Mineo

Cristina Mineo (12s):

If, you don't have a clear vision then you just feel like the things that are coming at you are only oppressive. But If, you have a vision and understand that yes, this thing is hard, but getting through this gets me to this goal then that has a different kind of value to you now. Now it's not only about the difficulty of it or the lack of money or whatever, it's like no, this is to get me from A to B and then from B2C. So I think having that vision and perspective is so important when being faced with something difficult. 'cause if not, then it's just difficult and then you just don't wanna do it. But If, you have vision. Those difficult things have purpose.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (55s):

Cristina Mineo is a real estate investor and entrepreneur. But before that, Chris started working at 14 in New York where she was born and raised. She graduated from Hunter College where we met. So I've known Chris for a long, long time. She graduated degree in sociology, working part-time and going to school part-time to put herself through college. In college she served as a leader in Hunter College's inter university chapter. She also worked with World Vision as a liaison. Chris also has a cosmetology license and worked in salons across New York before moving to Atlanta with her husband Andy in 2019, which is when she started investing in real estate.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (1m 35s):

Since then she has grown a sizable portfolio. In addition to working on buying and improving properties, she also manages her own properties. She owns and has owned everything from small single family homes to Airbnb's new builds and flips a portfolio that she has built all in under five years. Chris is one of the first people I turned to when I wanted to learn more about investing in real estate and is the only one I know who has successfully gotten the government to give her financing on a second investment property. The things I've learned from watching Chris speaking with Chris and being friends with Chris is tenacity and what I call first step energy, which is just take the first step. You find what works for you but you have to try a couple of different things.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (2m 18s):

You just have to start with step one and let things figure themselves out. So Chris, welcome to the show. I am super excited to have you here and thank you for being one of my very first guests.

Cristina Mineo (2m 29s):

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here and to talk about the nitty gritty things we're about to get into.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (2m 35s):

Absolutely. So when I think about financial independence and women working towards a clear financial outcome, you are one of the people I think about like in the same way that I think about how wealthy people have family offices, where they've got financial advisors, financial managers whose job it is is to marshal the family's resources and like really grow them. I always think about it as like Cristina runs her family's office. I've heard you say that when you got married it was super important for you to keep working and I and I think that the term you used was be self-sufficient. So why was it important to you?

Cristina Mineo (3m 12s):

So my husband, when we got married, he had some money, like more money than other people our age. So I didn't necessarily have to work with the living situation that we had, but it was important for me to keep working and keep investing in myself because you just never know what the future holds. And my personality, I don't know if anyone's familiar with the Enneagram, but I'm an Enneagram five, which is an investigator and independence is also very, very important to me and other fives. So even though I was living with my husband and we were doing financially okay, we were stable, it was very important for me to remain independent and at least maintain my ability to make my own money if something were to go wrong.

Cristina Mineo (3m 59s):

You just never know what happens in life.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (4m 1s):

So as part of that kind of journey to looking at how do I make my own money, how do I just make sure we have a backup if anything goes wrong, you kind of landed on real estate. How did you land there? Like what was that journey?

Cristina Mineo (4m 13s):

Well I should definitely clarify by saying that me and my husband do not come from families with money or who know how to manage money well like none of that. So all of this has been self-taught. So we started just from learning from people who we did have in our life, like the few people that did have money. And then we started reading. And as an investigator I love reading books. I was always good at school like I just love books. You put me in a room with a book and I'm gonna devour it. So I started reading Rich Dad, poor Dad and we just started having a lot more conversations about financial health and financial intelligence. And even though we were doing okay in New York in our two bedroom apartment on the first floor, we realized that if we stayed there, that's all we would have.

Cristina Mineo (5m 1s):

We were not gonna have too much opportunity to gain more or to do something for our family's future. And especially thinking of parents that are getting older that may not have like a suitable retirement plan. Just our, even our extended families realizing that we have an opportunity here and we should take advantage of it being young and healthy and childless for a long time. And with that realization also came that New York was gonna be a very difficult place to do that in not only New York City but also just New York State as a whole. The taxes, the laws, the property values, all of that.

Cristina Mineo (5m 41s):

So we were trying to figure out two different cities to go to. We were actually considering Miami or Atlanta and I just spent many weeks deep diving into both of those cities what the property values were, the population growth, the businesses that were there, their general like landlord laws. Miami actually would've been easier for me culturally. And I had family there and there's like a New York Florida pipeline, especially for Latinos. Like that's a very common thing. So I was rooting for Miami but the deeper that I got into it, the more that I realized that Atlanta was gonna be the better option hands down financially and for real estate investing.

Cristina Mineo (6m 22s):

So we did it. I was like emotions be damned. I'm gonna figure it out. I'll find my own community, I'll make friends, we'll be fine. But what matters is like setting us up for the future. Hmm.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (6m 32s):

So the Atlanta part is really interesting. There's recently been like a huge migration from like the north and the west to the south. In fact, I think Charles Blo who's like a, a writer wrote about this in New York Times in early 21 and he was like, everyone move back to the south. But you guys were like way ahead of the curve like so was it just that desire to like we wanna do this real estate thing, we know we wanna build wealth. It's not gonna happen in New York City because taxes are a big thing And I have a story about taxes, I'll tell you. But what was that? What sparked the movie was really just that desire of like we gotta figure this out and where we are now is not gonna work.

Cristina Mineo (7m 10s):

Yes. So actually in 2018 me and my husband had like a very real look at our finances and conversation and that's when we kind of realized if we stay here we we won't grow broke but we know what the future holds in New York. And we decided for the next five years every like major decision we were gonna make was gonna be finances driven. So it wasn't about what's more comfortable or what we want or what looks the best, it was like whatever was gonna give us the most financial gain, that's what we were gonna do. So that was how we landed on Atlanta. We also wanted to stay on the east coast. I should clarify, we didn't consider the whole country 'cause I wanted to stay at least semi close to my family and in the same time zone.

Cristina Mineo (7m 55s):

So Atlanta was the clear financial winner.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (8m 4s):

This episode is sponsored by the Her First House community called Fireplace. You can learn my about the community by going to Her First House dot org. My goal for the podcast is to get people who say hey because of Her First House, I felt confident buying a home. I felt confident buying an investment property and listening to the podcast episodes will help you start to build those muscles. But I also feel that community is really going to be where it's at in terms of actually starting to feel comfortable taking some of the great information you're going to learn on the podcast and putting it into action and also having the support from everyone around you to be able to do that. I wanted to fire a place to get to that campfire essence where there's comfort, there's warmth, and if you're with the right people there's vulnerability and a chance to see yourself in a different light.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (8m 52s):

Once you are in, we have some really great resources. You can hop on a call with me and everyone else in the community, ask any questions you have, hear what other listeners like you are up to in their own journeys. You get better list of resources. I personally attended read or used to grow my portfolio, access to training from experts, maybe even special private community sessions with guests who come on the show for our brand new podcast. We are start and small which means that the first few members in the fireplace community will really get that support and undivided attention. But we are excited that the community is going to be the strength of this podcast and it's really gonna drive the why behind Her First House. So check it out Her First House dot org.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (9m 38s):

It's so incredible that you both set a benchmark of even having a timeline. Listen for the next five years everything we do is gonna have to be about the money. I don't know that a lot of people like ever do that and go, these are values, this is the thing that's going to be most important to us for this length of time.

Cristina Mineo (9m 54s):

Yeah, I think a lot of people think of it as like either somebody is all about money and that's all they think about or you don't think about money at all and then you're just kind of living life. So putting the five year helped us to be like no, we're trying to be smart. Money doesn't run our life. Like we're not trying to live like this forever but we will. We're willing to make sacrifices for the next five years to do whatever we have to do no matter what that means.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (10m 19s):

It's super interesting 'cause it sparks, I remember when I was, I was in grad school, I went to grad school and I did a master's in behavioral economics and I was starting to like think about like potential jobs. Like what did I want to do after the degree. It was still kind of early in the program and I remember I started to talk to a lot of different people about like what Derek's 'cause this is how I learn. I talk to people, I'm like what? What are you learning? What are you doing? So I to talk to a lot of people who worked across the world in behavioral science 'cause I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to use the degree for yet. And I talked to somebody who worked for just like this super reputable company in Kenya and he said, lemme tell you the truth, you're gonna do good work, you're gonna love it here. You're Nigerian, like you'll have the best time.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (11m 1s):

But I can tell you that If, you work here, you're not gonna be the position to buy a house two years from now. Like the money like able to buy a house in in America two years from now, like the money isn't gonna let you do that. And that conversation helped me go like okay I guess money's important to me. 'cause after that I was like I guess I'm not gonna Kenya.

Cristina Mineo (11m 19s):

That's so real and it doesn't mean that money runs your life but you have certain values and certain goals and there are desires that you have that you're like man, maybe I did want it to want to live in Kenya for a certain amount of time. And that's okay if that was your decision. Be like no I am knowingly, I'm not gonna make that much money but this is an experience that I want and I value. And for you to hear that you made that decision like no money is something I value and these finances like setting up for the future is important for me. Especially right now. That's how you like, were able to sift through that decision. I respect it

Etinosa Agbonlahor (11m 57s):

A hundred percent. I love that. Okay, so you're brand new to Atlanta, you know you wanna do real estate. How did you go about trying to find that first property? Like how did you know what able to look at, how did you finance it? Like tell us the story of your first house.

Cristina Mineo (12m 10s):

So that's a great question. I actually quit my job in the end of 2018 and ADUs been the top of 2019 several months reading everything I could get my hands on about real estate, reading books, reading articles, podcasts, YouTube, anything I could, I was straight like in real estate school that I just created for myself. And I had all these criteria that I was looking at. I knew how much money we had to put down and I kind of did reverse engineering. So I was like, okay, if this is the money that we have for a down payment, 5% of this amount of money or 20% of this amount of money.

Cristina Mineo (12m 51s):

'cause I also wasn't sure if we were gonna do an investment property or move into the house 'cause it kind of depended on the house. So I reverse engineered it by the amount that we had to put down. So when I had those two different scenarios and I looked through Atlanta's listings, I realized it was gonna be much more feasible for us to find a house that we could live in. So that amount of money we had would be like the 5% down. And that helped me see the amount of the home values and I was looking in areas that had similar home values and then within those areas I was looking at the rents. So there was only a few neighborhoods that could give me that home price with the rents that I was looking for.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (13m 38s):

So it it started, you started with this is how much we have to invest. We can either go investment so it's 20% down, we can go owner occupied. So it's 5% down and then with the owner occupied, what can we afford with the 5% down and what makes sense with the rent?

Cristina Mineo (13m 52s):

Yes.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (13m 53s):

How are you deciding how, how did you know what the rents would look like?

Cristina Mineo (13m 56s):

I was looking on Zillow. I also at that point was in touch with our agent down here in Atlanta who is also an investor. So he understood what I was looking for and why. So it was several conversations that he was like I think this neighborhood can support these rents and this neighborhood could support these rents or this neighborhood may not be there right now, but in the next zero to five years it will definitely get there. Like all those conversations were super important. And what he was saying was matching up with what I was finding online. So I was spending hours like combing through listings and running all these deals and seeing what was possible. And then I found one, I, I remember there were two that I found actually three, there was one that I found that all the numbers worked out.

Cristina Mineo (14m 44s):

It was looking like a great deal. I think it was like a triplex or something and it was a cinder block home. So not a brick home. Not a wood home. It was made of cinder blocks. And I sent it to my agent who was more experienced than us and he was like, do not buy this house. He said, this home is gonna give you like so many issues or whatever. So I would find the numbers part and I would filter them through him. We also found another home that it was in down by the airport in Atlanta. And that was super interesting because it was one home that was like a two one I think and another house on the same lot that was a duplex. And I was like this is perfect, we can live in the one that's kind of separate and then it's a duplex and nobody's bothering anybody.

Cristina Mineo (15m 28s):

And the agent loved it too. It was like in a very stable area, very like family friendly community neighborhood. And as we were going through the process, I quickly realized that I was gonna have a very hard time finding financing because it wasn't a house and an A DU, it was two homes on one lot. Oh. So I realized the only way to buy a house like that was gonna be full cash or hard money. And that was not something we were willing to do at the time because regular like conventional financing was not gonna cover two buildings on one lot. Well

Etinosa Agbonlahor (16m 0s):

That's interesting. And they wouldn't have given you like a boiler portfolio loan, it would also have been super expensive.

Cristina Mineo (16m 6s):

Yes. And that's not, that was not the plan at the time. So we sift through those two and then we finally found one that was one home that had like a mother-in-law suite in the basement. And this home was within my price range in a very like up and coming neighborhood. And it looked awful like it. It was just in such bad shape. It was actually an older couple that owned it that had just gotten older and couldn't keep up with the property and their daughter was selling it on their behalf. Hmm. So the financing was pretty easy. We were able to get conventional, I was just hoping that they deemed it livable, you know, that I was able to get financing at all.

Cristina Mineo (16m 47s):

Which thank God they did. And we did have to delay the closing for a couple months because they were going through probate, which I didn't fully understand at the time because the parents were still alive. I think it might have been like some kind of power of attorney thing that was happening with a daughter. But as we were living in New York and I was like we're not in a rush, like whatever you have to do, we're willing to wait for this property. And then we actually did a rehab loan, I think my lender called it. So it was an owner occupied loan but within the loan they were able to add the financing to rehab the loan as part of the loan. So we bought that house for 350,000 and they were able to add an extra a hundred thousand on the loan for us to rehab the house.

Cristina Mineo (17m 36s):

So my loan for that house was four 50 and then minus the down payment and all that. But we were able to lump them in together. So was

Etinosa Agbonlahor (17m 44s):

It, was your down payment just of the purchase price or was it of the purchase price and the rehab loan?

Cristina Mineo (17m 50s):

So that's a great question. It was of the purchase price and the rehab loan, it was a down payment on the four 50.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (17m 57s):

Ah, okay.

Cristina Mineo (17m 58s):

Which when that happens, it's also the lender is also kind of involved in the construction, which I really appreciated actually because I have no idea what I was doing at all. So it made me feel better that someone else had eyes on what was happening.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (18m 15s):

So how did you decide what you wanted to do with the renovations given having done it before first time ever, how did you know what you even wanted to do with the house? Yeah,

Cristina Mineo (18m 24s):

Listen, I just Faked it till I make it. I made it. My contractor starts asking me, this is what happened. We, I find the house, we close on the house. I'm like woo, I did it. I'm doing this real estate investing thing. Like I'm done. The contractor's gonna do their job. The contractor starts asking me questions like what kind of tile, what kind of grout, what kind of schluter strip, what kind of rough and plumbing? And I'm like, I'm sorry what I, I, I'm googling. Well before I even started Googling I asked him, I said don't you make these decisions? And he said No, I do what you tell me to do. And I was like, oh no.

Cristina Mineo (19m 4s):

So I literally just started googling my way through a rehab and thankfully it all worked out.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (19m 9s):

Oh my god.

Cristina Mineo (19m 12s):

Well I just wish there was a product that was like, oh these are the things that you'll need when rehabbing a home and these are some options that would be good for you. So actually I got with a partner of mine and we created a part a product like that. So we have a company called Elements and Hardware where we sell packs for homes. So it's details of a bathroom for a bathroom, renovations, details for kitchen renovations. And if someone is doing a whole house they have the option of buying a kitchen and two bathrooms or a kitchen and three bathrooms or however many bathrooms you need. So I created that product 'cause that was something that I needed and I wanted, I just wanted someone to sell me something that was gonna look good and tell me what to do.

Cristina Mineo (19m 57s):

'cause even if someone is creative and has style, they may not have the time to put all these details together. Anyone who has tried to do this from scratch knows how much time those details take. So we were just happy to create this product for people.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (20m 13s):

I I, I feel like that would have been really useful to me when I was doing my first one because I was also dream mine from like a different continent.

Cristina Mineo (20m 21s):

Oh man. Luckily

Etinosa Agbonlahor (20m 22s):

I had a really good contractor. Like he kind of understood like just she doesn't know what she's doing. So he would go to him and he'd like, you want this one or do you want this one? He would like take like or that and this is the pricing on both of them. So it was really like this, this and there were a couple of things where he was like these are the dimensions. Go find something that like fits with like your budget. So we were able to like make it work that way. But if I had a packet, a tool somewhere where I could go like even with like more recent renovations, there was a a bur I did in Montgomery where I wish I just had something to be like hey contractor, here's this file like everything and I what I was just go forth and conquer. Don't call me and ask me like what type of sink I want in the, I don't care truly like

Cristina Mineo (21m 7s):

Yes.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (21m 8s):

So is this something that people can, is it like gonna be online? Like how does it work?

Cristina Mineo (21m 12s):

Yes. So it'll be online and then you'll be able to go on our website and buy a pack. You can do it a la carte or together and then it's like a digital download that'll come to you with all the details and it'll have images, descriptions, links and recommendations from my partner and I who have done this several times already of how to either lay certain things or and it'll come with pictures of properties that we've done.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (21m 38s):

Amazing. Okay. I'm gonna ask you more about that like at the end so people know where they can like find it. But going back to it's your first rehab, technically it's your first house but it's also rehab. You don't have anything from elements and hardware to like make it easy for what you Yeah. Was there any fear when you were going through this process? Like were you

Cristina Mineo (21m 58s):

Scared so much fear, so much fear 450,000 is a lot of money and I felt like if I put the wrong tile in this house is gonna go bankrupt, like we're gonna go bankrupt. I just felt so much pressure of not wanting to make the wrong decision.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (22m 16s):

Hey quick reminder, all the content you hear on the podcast and in the fireplace community are all for your entertainment and education only. It is not financial advice. Please get advice from a competent financial professional, especially If, you need expert help for your very specific situation. Okay, answer the episode. So how did you overcome that fear like and did you overcome it or was it like a feel the fear and do it anyway type of deal?

Cristina Mineo (22m 45s):

It was definitely a feel the fear and do it anyway and try to Google my way out of things. So if I didn't know or if I had a question I was just googling it until I felt like I really understood enough to ask the right questions because then maybe I'd get clarifying questions from my contractor or my agent or anybody who would listen to me like God bless my lender, he was asking, he was answering questions for me too. I mean everybody that I was around were all men and all had so much patience with me and I bless them every day for it.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (23m 16s):

So what is one thing you would say to anyone who wants to do real estate but like is held back by fear?

Cristina Mineo (23m 23s):

Man, I just feel like in anything in life it it's a hundred percent okay to feel the fear. I think people wait until the fear is gone but there's no point, there will never be something that you do that has no fear. That's only when you're really good at something and the only way to get really good at something is to start doing it. So you just like push through the fear. And one thing that helps me with anxiety is I will sit there and go through all of the worst case scenarios, all of the worst ones. Like if we buy this house and everything goes wrong and we can't rent it, we can't sell it, we have to file for bankruptcy. Is that something we can live through? What does that look like?

Cristina Mineo (24m 3s):

How will that affect us in the future? What will we eat? Where will we live? If I play all that out and be like, okay, I don't want those consequences but I can live through those consequences now I have some confidence. And that fear dampens a little bit.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (24m 19s):

That's super interesting because like from a behavioral science perspective, that's also one of the ways like people can deal with uncertainty is thinking through like one of the worst case 'cause uncertainty and anxiety is like you're just going through like what if this happens and that happens and that happens. So like taking it through to the end and going, okay, if this happened we could do this, which would help with that. Like having all of your exit strategies is a really unique way of like just dealing with, with fear and anxiety.

Cristina Mineo (24m 43s):

Yeah, I think anxiety is trying to keep something from happening. So I just tried to almost accept that this is an option that this can happen and I can still live through it. And that doesn't take away my fear. I wanna be clear. That doesn't take away my fear completely, but it does make me feel like a little bit more confident in the next step. The next one, the next one, the next one.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (25m 6s):

I love that I feel like I, I sometimes reflect on things that I've done. I'm like that is crazy. How did you do that? I feel like there's probably a similar feeling with you where you look back at, you're like, I think I just did it with like just step one then step two and like your heart is beating, your hands are sweating, you're like it's, that's right up all night. Like walking back and forth googling everything like trying to, but still it's another step and another step and somehow like it, it gets done. You own a house

Cristina Mineo (25m 33s):

And do you remember in school, well I don't know but in school I was even in elementary school my parents would ask like, did you do your best on this project, on this paper, whatever this homework. And if my answer was yes, then they were like, well then whatever happens happens. But as long as you do your best that's all you can ask for. So I try to push myself until I'm like there is no other resource that I can hunt down to help me and I'm gonna shoot my shot anyway and I did my best and I can't hold that against anybody and whatever happens happens.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (26m 10s):

I love that, I love that. I think that's such a big mindset thing of did you push yourself as hard as you could? And it's not necessarily about like you know, push yourself until you break but it's like you understand what your limits are, you know what you're capable of. And so it's like did I really exhaust all options? Did I really try as hard as I could? And if I can look myself into the room, be like you, you did your best. We tried, we can go to bed and we're good.

Cristina Mineo (26m 32s):

That's right. Exhausting all options. I love that.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (26m 35s):

So a while ago, I think this was 2021, we were just talking about how like dates are meaningless to me. Like I don't, the last four years are a blur. I don't know why. I think it was 2021, we're sitting at a bar in New Orleans and you told me the story of how you got your second property and I had like goosebumps partly because it new and we outside and it was cold but also because I was like who is this person and to like do this miraculous things. So I want you to tell the story of that property and then I have a couple of questions for you.

Cristina Mineo (27m 5s):

Okay. So our first property was closed on in August of 2019 and it, like I said, it was in an up and coming neighborhood and I'm gonna emphasize the up and coming part because next door to the property that we closed on was a full on trap house. Like people who were clearly on drugs were coming in and out at all hours of the day. I don't even know how many people lived in this house. It was absolutely like deteriorating everybody in the block and the police department knew what was happening but you know how it is. So I noticed a few months, I think by December, 2019 I noticed that they had a for sale sign and I just had this impression, this feeling and I believe in God.

Cristina Mineo (27m 49s):

So I felt like it was God telling me. But however you think about it, I just felt like I'm gonna own that house. And I wasn't looking for a new house, I just got through rehabbing this thing that I didn't know what to do. I was not looking for it. But we saw them go through several times under contract and they actually fell out a couple of times and we just decided to shoot our shot and I knew because it was next door and built very similar to my first house, what it would take to rehab that house. So we were able to get it under contract. But I was talking with my lender about how to finance this because this is happening January of 2020.

Cristina Mineo (28m 35s):

So my lender was like, oh well it's gonna have to be an investment property because you just bought a primary residence. And I said, okay, well just hear me out like is there any other way and god bless my lender. He was like, there is one way, there's no guarantee that it'll work but let's just shoot our shot. And I'm, that's what I'm here for. There's no guaranteed wins but I just gotta try. Okay. He said, If, you write the letter to the underwriter describing the situation of this house describing your neighborhood saying that your plan is to move into it but it needs so much work, it's gonna take at least a year to do that. I'll pause here and say if you've ever closed on a primary residence, FHA, you know that you have a year before you can be eligible for another one.

Cristina Mineo (29m 22s):

So this is like six months, not even he said just write a letter describing everything and describing the work that's gonna need to be had. So I write this letter about who I am about me and my husband about, we moved down to Atlanta and we love this neighborhood. We have this house that's kind of like a to the community and I would love to buy it but it's gonna take a lot of work. It would really be helpful for me to get primary residents financing. And I fully understand that you just gave me one a few months ago, but hear me out like they, I need at least six months of work, which will put me to about a year. Could you please have mercy on me and give me primary residence financing?

Cristina Mineo (30m 5s):

Did

Etinosa Agbonlahor (30m 6s):

Oh my gosh. No. And they did. And they did.

Cristina Mineo (30m 10s):

They did. I think it was just like the fact that this house was in such bad shape and we were looking to make it better. It wasn't like one house to another house. It was like this is bigger. Like one day we wanna have a family, we love this neighborhood and we wanna make it better. I don't know, I don't know who that underwriter was. I wish I could meet them one day. But that person like really helped me out because then we were able to do 5% again low interest rate, it was great. So we actually did the same rehab loan with them again.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (30m 40s):

Wow. That is insane. And it's also the power of like just ask, just shoot your shot.

Cristina Mineo (30m 47s):

That's right.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (30m 48s):

I guarantee you like I sit in rooms with real estate investors and they're all about like seller financing. Get a hard money loan and just refinance it out. Like pay 13% on a loan instead of 3.5%, which is probably like what you got or even lower.

Cristina Mineo (31m 2s):

Yeah.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (31m 2s):

We set all this opportunities because nobody ever thinks like just see what they think. Ask. Ask and see what happens.

Cristina Mineo (31m 8s):

Yes. Because like we said, If you ask then you're exhausting all options. If I never ask then that's on me, not on them. Mm. If they say no, there's nothing you can do about it. But if I don't ask, that's on me.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (31m 19s):

I think that it's a, that's a huge mindset thing as well because like I'm also learning how to do this with myself. I'm like holding myself accountable for I have an assumption that I can only do x, I have an assumption this is the way the world is. I have an assumption that this is the only way to buy real estate or to build wealth or whatever. And it's like, well challenge why is that as an assumption? Like did you check, did you double check? Did you not? Did you ask the person, did you validate that assumption or are you just taking it as facts somebody something that somebody else has told you about the world.

Cristina Mineo (31m 48s):

And this is huge in and especially for black and brown women, huge because we're raised to stay in our place. Be small, don't make too many waves, don't be disrespectful, don't be too loud, don't be too controversial, don't be this and that. So asking for something that you are already told you cannot have is very difficult. It takes because I was already told I cannot get another primary residence. Yeah, that's the law and the federal law. Like what?

Etinosa Agbonlahor (32m 20s):

And so it's even like psych yourself up and be like, they say write a letter, let's go write a letter, let's see what happens. Like that's huge. And I think that the, even like to your point like as women as black and brown women, it's also like a lot of times like people talk about, oh you're the only one in the broom, you're the only one who looks like you. Like you talked about like everyone who was working on this deal with you was all men. And they often hold it as a, it's not comfortable to be the only one in the room. It's not comfortable to be the only one who is. It's like the the you're not where you're supposed to be. You're in a spot that wasn't necessarily made for you. And so you feel like all eyes are on you ne to some extent. But I found that like if you're gonna do things, a lot of times you're gonna be the only one who looks like you in that room. Like suck it up.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (32m 60s):

That's right. Let's go.

Cristina Mineo (33m 2s):

Like that's real A lot of times that's very real.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (33m 5s):

It's gonna be just you buddy. Like go make a friend, go be like, hey, like you look nothing like me. We believe completely opposite things. Like I'm on the left, you are on the right to like different continents but like I have stuff to learn from you so let's figure it out.

Cristina Mineo (33m 18s):

That's right. And I feel like we already, just like me and my husband in New York, we understood what that life was gonna give us. Black and brown women, we already know the alternative. So the know that we would potentially get would just mean that we would be in what we already familiar with. But the yes could change not just us but our future generations. So to me it's like I already have nothing to lose. Like my back is already up against the wall. So all I have in me is fight. I'm not expecting it to be easier, it's not gonna be easier for me. So I just start whacking the weeds while I can.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (33m 54s):

A few years ago my, my whole motto was like go do the hard thing because the hard thing is where the rewards are gonna be at in grad school. I talk about grad school a lot. I think it was 'cause it was probably like the last really difficult thing I did where it took me sitting in front of a mirror and being like, girl gonna have to figure this one out. Because from, you know, I was working in the corporate world publishing, going to a grasping and behavioral economics, like the first class they're talking about like economic theorems, they have homework, people have like protractors, they're using protractors to like do the assignment. I'm like, what is that?

Cristina Mineo (34m 27s):

How do you, I

Etinosa Agbonlahor (34m 29s):

Have no idea what is going on. And I had to be like, girl you came all the way from America to the UK to do this thing. You're paying x, y, Z amount of money. That is your money. So like, and my parents' money too so I was like we're gonna have to figure this one out. You're gonna have to sort it out like there's no going back, there's no plan B. You need to do the hard thing and figure it out.

Cristina Mineo (34m 49s):

One of the best advice I ever got was from a director of the cosmetology school and he said, when everyone else says no, you say yes. Like if there's something that's too scary or too unknown or too whatever If you say yes, you'll do the things that no one else wants to do and you'll have the things no one else has. So I love that attitude in you.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (35m 12s):

I love that. But I also feel like recently mean there's been a bit of like a, like a shift away from like embracing doing the hard things. I don't know what's going on like culture, but I feel, I don't know if you've seen this too, but I feel like more and more people are looking at If. you tell people like do the hard things because then you get the things that nobody else has. They feel like you're trying to like sell them like a like the hard, it's not the soft's life. Yeah. You know like you're, you're trying to cheat them out something. It's like you're telling them to go to an unpaid internship and it's like oh how dare you. It's like exploitation And it's like let me tell you the truth. Everyone who's on Twitter talking about how you shouldn't do unpaid internships and maybe I'll get canceled for this on the very first episode.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (35m 56s):

It's like they go to their uncle's firms in the summer and work for nothing. They're like figure finding people who are good at what they wanna do and they're going, Hey I will, I will hang out. I just wanna be around you and I just wanna learn from you. It's not about like the yeah $14 you're gonna get an hour when you're starting out. It's about the learnings and the lessons and being willing to like go that extra mile. Like you talk about doing the hard things at that salon. I don't wanna even want to know what it looks like to do a hard thing at a beauty salon. I'm sure you've seen some things

Cristina Mineo (36m 26s):

But I've seen some nasty, I've seen things I can't unsee that's,

Etinosa Agbonlahor (36m 31s):

But it's that journey. It's like do the hard things push through and hold yourself accountable as well to expect some better things from yourself.

Cristina Mineo (36m 39s):

I think it goes back to our conversation of values and vision If, you don't have a clear vision then you just feel like the things that are coming at you are only oppressive but If you have a vision and understand that yes this thing is hard but getting through this gets me to this goal then that has a different kind of value to you now. Now it's not only about the difficulty of it or the lack of money or whatever, it's like no this is to get me from A to B and then from B2C. So I think having that vision and perspective is so important when being faced with something difficult. 'cause if not then it's just difficult and then you just don't wanna do it.

Cristina Mineo (37m 20s):

But If you have vision. Those difficult things have purpose.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (37m 25s):

So one of the things that I loved about Hunter, we both went to Hunter College in 68th and Lexington. Upper East side of New York.

Cristina Mineo (37m 33s):

I think it was 66th street. Yeah.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (37m 35s):

Okay. One of the things I loved about Hunter was that there was this like no BS over to it. Like everyone who was at Hunter, at least most people there, they were there for a reason. Like they were either like scholarship kids like me or they were working on putting themselves through school like you. And so there was this sense of like we're at Hunter, we're here for, to your point, we're here for a purpose. No one is messing around, everyone is heads down. We gotta do what we gotta do. And you also started working at a really young age. 14. So what I'm curious about is were there lessons that you learned from working and going to Hunter specifically that kind of impact how you approach investing and even just working in general today?

Cristina Mineo (38m 14s):

This is such a good and important question because Hunter is a special place and Hunter is a part of system called Cuny cu NY. They're like the public colleges of New York City. And anyone who goes to a CUNY school understands what we're saying right now. I would watch movies and see these kids in college settings and they're like partying and drinking and having fun or that was not us Like at all. These buildings were very pretty, they were very like utilitarian. Like you come in, you sit down, you work and then that's it. And a lot of, most of the people there are from working class families, from immigrant families, from people that are either there through scholarships or trying to work their way through.

Cristina Mineo (39m 0s):

And there were a lot of moments that I just felt overwhelmed like this is not fair, this is not easy. I can't find anyone to help me. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm caring not just my financial burdens but I'm paying stuff for my family too. Like this is so not fair. And I'm watching other people online and they are like just parting in college like this is, it was just so not my experience. It took me six years to do a four year degree 'cause I was working at the same time. For anybody that has finished a degree at cuny, they are go-getters. You have to be, there's no other way that you're successful. If not, you just like quit because there's no one to help you.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (39m 42s):

Anyone who was successful at Hunter, they're a go-getter. They made that thing happen by themselves. Nothing was handed to them for sure. It's like you want something, go figure out how to get it. 'cause no one has it here for you.

Cristina Mineo (39m 53s):

Like yeah, no one is there for you. And then everybody has like New York attitudes too. So like no one's gonna cry about it with you or for you. So it's like If, you want it, you go get it. And I feel like that's so easily translates into adulthood in general, let alone investing. Which is like, oh nobody's believing in you. Nobody's handing things to you. Okay. And try anyway.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (40m 17s):

I love that. Like it it truly, there truly is such a parallel of you learn. Like I think we both learn from like early on figuring things out is gonna be a superpower. Figuring things out when nobody else understands what you're trying to do. Nobody understands like why you want it will take you places. And by applying that to like investing in these other kind of domains when you're talking I was reflecting, I don't know anyone who like we know in common who went to Hunter who isn't successful. I don't know anyone who I can point and and be like, oh they kind of just flop around and haven't done much with their lives. Like everybody is doing the thing that they wanted to do in one way or another is like doing it.

Cristina Mineo (40m 54s):

That's right. I think we learned how to do the hard things from a very young age. Hmm. And that is such a valuable experience and that's something that maybe some people don't understand about difficult things. Life is not about avoiding difficult things. Life is about becoming strong enough to withstand the difficult things and figure them out. And that's one thing that now I'm grateful for that I'm out many years outside of Hunter during the time I hated it and was like just very confused about why this even was, why it had to be so hard. But now I'm so grateful of everything that that taught me and the more difficult things that you survive, the more confidence you have to face other difficult things.

Cristina Mineo (41m 42s):

So now I'm like, oh this one lender doesn't wanna give me this loan. Like this is nothing. I survived Hunter College, I will find another lender to give me a loan.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (41m 54s):

Oh my God, I love that I survived Hunter College. We need to, I didn't, I dunno that I should tag Hunter in this conversation. Their social media person is gonna be like, no

Cristina Mineo (42m 5s):

They build grit at Hunter. That's what they build. Great.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (42m 8s):

1000%. Like we can say that for Hunter. All right. One of the big things that I realized when I first started investing was like I had to rely on people. And for me, like one of my like character failures, ego is like a big thing. Like I love being self-sufficient. It might be a hunter thing, it might be a New York thing, it might be an immigrant thing. I just like knowing that I can do it myself and I would get it done. But as soon as I started trying to invest in real estate, especially the way I chose to do it, which is like long distance, different continent, all of that, I was like, oh no, you need people and you need to trust people.

Cristina Mineo (42m 43s):

Yes.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (42m 44s):

And that has been one of the biggest things I have struggled with. Like we're talking at the start of this conversation how I felt like last year I was just specifically exhausted with real estate. Hmm. Because I felt like I put a good team together but then it doesn't stay a good team for a very long time.

Cristina Mineo (42m 59s):

Hmm.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (42m 59s):

So do you feel like you've built a good team around you and and how have you done that?

Cristina Mineo (43m 4s):

Yes. I'm very grateful that that I found a great agent and lender right away and those two will really carry you far. I found great contractors but what I've learned through building a team is that contractors you, I need several of them. So I have kind of tiered contractors. So I have like the handyman world which is like I need to fix a sink or maybe a cabinet door or fix small plumbing jobs, things like that. Then I have like intermediate contractors which is like I need to redo one bathroom or I need to redo the cabinets of this kitchen or a countertop, things like that.

Cristina Mineo (43m 46s):

Then I have like top tier contractors which is like I'm either gutting out this whole house or doing a new build. So I have a roster of each level of contractor. 'cause contractors are usually the part of people's team that is the most difficult to nail down and trust and all that. So I have several of each tier and I'm not trying to put the handyman one to build a new house. I'm also trying to learn them and where they're at and what they're capable of to put them to succeed and 'cause then I succeed.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (44m 18s):

I really like that. One of the lessons that I've learned, which should sound obvious, is like don't manage contractors long distance. 'cause then you don't know if they're a handyman contractor on there. You really should't using them for small jobs or if they're truly very capable and excellent GCs. We did a, we did a renovation once where it was long distance. I went and looked at it a couple of times, had investor friends in the area drive by, take a look at it, had two potential property managers drive by and like take a look at it and yet when the tenant moved in they send a picture of one of the closets where you could look through the closet at the ground.

Cristina Mineo (44m 58s):

Oh no. Oh no ground.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (45m 1s):

My guy did not feel the need to do flooring in the closet. And I was like that learned

Cristina Mineo (45m 7s):

Contractors are a special breed. God bless them all. My goodness. They're a special breed. And I've also learned that the different tiers require different levels of communication. So if I'm like rehabbing a whole house, I, I have a template that I use like a spreadsheet and images and if I'm in person or if I have a liaison, I'm literally printing them out, hosting them on that in that space, whatever it is. And being like this is how it needs to look ultimately. Because I've also had contractors who I tell them to do a job and they take creative license and I'm like my man, this is not how this was supposed to go down. Like who said you could do this.

Cristina Mineo (45m 47s):

So over communication is amazing.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (45m 50s):

I had somebody once build a set of steps in a garage facing directly where the car would be parked so that there was no space for the car to park and there was also no handrails. And so I was like, what If you moved it to the side and put a handrail. He was like, oh do you think that'll be better?

Cristina Mineo (46m 5s):

Yes.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (46m 6s):

Help

Cristina Mineo (46m 6s):

Me listen. They do the job and we gotta tell 'em exactly what to do.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (46m 12s):

So what is one thing you're currently working on that you could use help with?

Cristina Mineo (46m 17s):

So we are really, I'm really excited about this brand that we're building elements in hardware and just, I would love it if people could look us up on Instagram, on our website and share about us and we have these gorgeous, spacious spaces that we've done and If you love one to like purchase a pack and even just sharing our posts, we would really appreciate it.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (46m 39s):

Do you have a website for it yet?

Cristina Mineo (46m 40s):

Elements in hardware.com and it's elements in hardware, Instagram, everything in is elements in hardware.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (46m 47s):

Is the spreadsheet you mentioned that you use for managing contractors, is that there? 'cause that could also be valuable to people.

Cristina Mineo (46m 53s):

So we have all the information in like their own spreadsheet, which is, I tailor it to the contractor depending on what's happening. So they could take that information and do it in a way that their contractor wants or they could send that exact one to the contractor. So it is like in a, in a grid, it's not the same one that I use, but we can, maybe that's something that we develop a different product. Who

Etinosa Agbonlahor (47m 18s):

Knows the whole product line? Her. First House and elements and hardware. Yeah, so my vision for Her First House is that one day someone will come up to me and tell me that Her, First House the podcast gave me or gave them the confidence to buy their first property or gives them the courage to figure it out and just like take the first step towards getting into real estate in general. So imagine that you are looking at 14-year-old Cristina at her very first job. What was that job? Was it like Panera? What, what was your first job?

Cristina Mineo (47m 50s):

I think my first job ever. I think I started with like camp counselor vibes in the summer and then moved to retail at the mall and then moved to Panera and you know, classic high school jobs.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (48m 3s):

So imagine you're looking at 14-year-old Cristina era working one of those jobs. What is one thing you would want her to know?

Cristina Mineo (48m 9s):

Man, I would want her to know that even though things are hard and might feel a little bit unfair, all of this is gonna work in your favor in the future. This is creating character in you that will see you through the rest of your life and that will be hard to develop. If, you didn't have this.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (48m 30s):

Amazing, where can people find you

Cristina Mineo (48m 32s):

On Instagram at Cristina mineo

Etinosa Agbonlahor (48m 35s):

And then also elements in hardware.com? Yes. And all of the socials under that same handle? Yes. Awesome. Well thank you for coming on and being one of my very first guests. I know people are gonna learn a lot from this and not just about real estate, but like we talked a lot about mindset and tenacity and like, I think there's just a ton that people are gonna understand and hopefully I think it's gonna help things click into pay into place for some people who are going through like really hard times and like it, it will help them contextualize like If, you have a vision for why you're going through this hard times. Like it's gonna be worth it. If you're just kind of like rambling along, you might not understand like this is building character and, and this is for a purpose. So I feel like you've really, you've really done something here today.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (49m 17s):

Thank you.

Cristina Mineo (49m 19s):

Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

Etinosa Agbonlahor (49m 21s):

Absolutely. Thank you for listening to today's episode. Remember to check us out on Her First House dot org and join the community for access to bi-monthly calls with me and everyone else in the group as well as loads of cool resources. Also like share this episode with two people and tell me what you liked or learned from the episode by tagging me on Instagram at realestate with Etti. That's real estate with ETI. We'll see you in the community and on the next episode.